The Extra-Solar Union of Systems Archive

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Arizona Nova wrote: Yes, I believe a STANDING fleet would conflict with the constitution...

I really do wonder sometimes if you people have actually read the constitution. In no way does a group of men and women, who have sworn loyalty to the ESUS body above their own nations, crewing warships that are a culmination of many member's technology, conflict with the constitution. At all. In fact, it promotes certain articles of the constitution. As long as that fleet could only be used in an offensive manner with a majority vote in the senate, and never against the interests of any member state, there is absolutely no problem, and no infringement of sovereignty.

A small, standing, reactionary fleet (which I find acceptable, unlike a large, alliance-wide fleet) as CF suggested would be very cool. Possibly several small fleets (numbering 20 to 100 ships) could be positioned to strategic points in the universe, allowing every member state (so long as one "sector's" nations don't get attacked en masse) a quick, assured response to a call for help.

This being in the courts confuses me, as it was an OOC proposal to make an IC proposal. /shrug

Oh, and then there's the slightly related matter of actually roleplaying the ESSCD and what type of equipment it has. You know, the Extra Solar Serious Crimes Directorate, established in Article IV.

A compulsory fleet would be against the constitution. However, since this is an amendment to the constitution, if it passes, it would no longer be against it.

Penguenia wrote: I really do wonder sometimes if you people have actually read the constitution. In no way does a group of men and women, who have sworn loyalty to the ESUS body above their own nations, crewing warships that are a culmination of many member's technology, conflict with the constitution. At all. In fact, it promotes certain articles of the constitution. As long as that fleet could only be used in an offensive manner with a majority vote in the senate, and never against the interests of any member state, there is absolutely no problem, and no infringement of sovereignty.

There is the letter of the constitution and the spirit of the constitution; even if this supposedly doesn't conflict with the letter of it, in my eyes it certainly clashes with the spirit of it; that is, if it is compulsory. I am not totally against this proposal, but I believe a standing fleet would centralize things, and a compulsory donation would drive off members.

Penguenia wrote:A small, standing, reactionary fleet (which I find acceptable, unlike a large, alliance-wide fleet) as CF suggested would be very cool. Possibly several small fleets (numbering 20 to 100 ships) could be positioned to strategic points in the universe, allowing every member state (so long as one "sector's" nations don't get attacked en masse) a quick, assured response to a call for help.

Again, there is the question of it being compulsory. Defensive or offensive, making it compulsory WOULD violate the spirit of the constitution, and as some members here have already stated, be something they are against.

Penguenia wrote:This being in the courts confuses me, as it was an OOC proposal to make an IC proposal. /shrug

"The Courts: Debate decisions by ESUS here. (Semi-IC)"

This is a decision which would be made by the ESUS, thus it is debated here.

Compulsory participation is, of course, against the constitution. An ESUS fleet would, however, probably be voluntary.

Indeed, were contribution compulsory I would vote against it both IC and OOC.

As is I'm only marginally for it OOC, and would abstain IC.

I'll suggest what I always suggest when this comes up - create a 'treaty fleet' amongst interested ESUS members, separate from the constitution and Union as a whole. Preferably a standardised fleet everyone can be familiar with, which would be answerable to the funding nations and dedicated to their defence(although naturally they could use it to defend other ESUS members at their own discretion). Joint crews should also help to better relations between(most) Union members.

As a rapid response/joint patrol force it would be ideal, and avoid just about every hangup involved in a proper ESUS fleet(including needing a senate vote to mobilize, which could make a rapid response force all but useless).

So are we imitating the TYCS here?

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